Siegelaub Chapter 8

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S.R. Thank you very much. I liked it very much because you had a very different perspective on many things, because the artists always look from this very self-centred perspective ...

S.S. ... and that's really depressing, too, because they are not very critical. And when you read some of the replies here [in »The Context of Art»] ... even from people ... because this was a kind of thing I was looking for, for some self-reflexive, not necessarily critical about themselves, [...] when certain of the artists, even people I know very, very well ... The art world really hasn't changed from 1969; it's the same thing, people become famous, a little more work, a little more money... I don't think it's just me who thinks that it's changed dramatically; I think there's been an objective change in the quantity and quality of the art world. But yet, to have them say it, only means (..) so at least one can think everything is okay with them, and so they don't really have to think that hard and are just doing their work. And a lot of it has to do with being famous, keeping up being famous, certain kind of risk in their art making process, changing –  but not changing too much, etc. [...] Very calculated strategies ... strategies for art making, sort of history making. It's kind of strange, with very few exceptions ...

S.R. ... shark tank, they call it shark's tank.

S.S. Yes ... and he, I don't know that much about ... I know Hirst is a very clever operator. There's a whole group of people operating with him. Just, you know, just to be able to understand those mechanisms is really very important.

S.R. For example I asked art & language, Michael and Mel, I asked them, just by chance in the talk, When did you see last time Joseph Kosuth, and they said, oh .... 14 years, 14 years ago... It's crazy, because when I think of it I think of much younger people, I think they must be very close friends.

S.S. But Joseph has alienated a lot of people in his life ... I only see Josef when we go to the Venice Biennale or something like that. He made a show... He makes it difficult to like him; he is very pushy, as he may know, very art historical, very hard to ...

S.R. He is a colleague now of mine, because I'm working as a professor at the academy in Munich, and he is in Munich since two years.

S.S. I mean he is okay, he is easy to get on with in personal things.

S.R. He is very seldom there ...

S.S. ... but he is also very much involved with Joseph Kosuth and in pushing Joseph Kosuth at the expense of everything else. It's very difficult .... He came up here and did a show in Eindhoven, and he called up, I didn't hear from him, he calls up like two days before, come down for the dinner; I couldn't because I was away. He did that like five years earlier for another project ... just calls up ... and then you don't hear from him at all. But he's okay; he is still an important artist [...] no doubt about it.

S.R. ... That was very nice that we could be your guests on a Sunday

S.S. Yes, it's okay ... Sunday, it doesn't make any difference. We work all week long, we also play a lot, too. We play a lot, we go away, we do trips, ... we work on Sunday, Monday, Tuesday and then go away for [...] to New York to play for ten days or eight days ...

S.R. There is only one thing I want to ask you for. You were talking about a terrace ... Maybe we just can take some photos of you on the terrace ... very short ...

S.S. ... it's okay; it's an environment I like, [...]( break) I published ... the only edition of Marx and Engels on literature and art. And I used to sign it like »Karl and Freddie having a great time here in the, here in [...] Cologne in 1862....

S.R. That's a nice fake, because I wrote a book about fake.

S.S. Oh yeah? About fake ... One of the great artists I always liked ... is Elaine Sturtevant ...

S.R. I wrote some texts for her.

S.S. The problem she poses in her work ... I always thought the work is fantastic. I know she teaches around here and she's around Amsterdam a lot... I've never met her.

S.R. She had a big show in Frankfurt.

S.S. Yes, I saw that, I mean I saw the note, I didn't see the show ... But it's the kind of problems she poses in doing her work [...] I mean, a lot of the things we were talking about today ... You know it's like ... authenticity, very Benjamin ... the authenticity of the art work, things like that, very very  nice [...] So when you speak of fraud I think of that kind of problem, what's an original, what difference does it make. ... (signiert) // S.R. ... of course ...


« Seth Siegelaub